Legislature(2007 - 2008)CAPITOL 106

03/11/2008 03:00 PM House HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ SJR 11 SUPPORTING U.S. VETERANS' HEALTH CARE TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
+ SB 119 SCHOOL LIBRARY GRANTS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ SB 241 UNIV. REPORT: TEACHER TRAINING/RETENTION TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
SB 241-UNIV. REPORT: TEACHER TRAINING/RETENTION                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:23:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON announced  that the next order of  business would be                                                               
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 241(SED),  "An Act relating to a report to                                                               
the   legislature   on   teacher  preparation,   retention,   and                                                               
recruitment by the Board of  Regents of the University of Alaska;                                                               
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:24:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GARY STEVENS,  Alaska  State  Legislature, informed  the                                                               
committee that SB  241 was a result of  the legislative education                                                               
task force  and requires a  report from the University  of Alaska                                                               
(UA)  specific  to  the  tracking,  training,  and  retaining  of                                                               
qualified public school teachers.   He noted that the legislature                                                               
does  not often  have  a dialog  with the  UA  Board of  Regents;                                                               
however,  the bill  proposes that,  on the  thirtieth day  of the                                                               
legislative session, the Board of  Regents issue an annual report                                                               
to the  legislative educational committees.   This  annual report                                                               
becomes a biannual  report after 2013.  The bill  sends a message                                                               
that the  legislature wants to  know what  the UA is  doing about                                                               
the teacher shortage in the  state.  Senator Stevens acknowledged                                                               
that,  although  the  UA  makes   a  great  deal  of  information                                                               
available,  it   is  valuable   that  it   be  reported   to  the                                                               
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:26:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER asked  for an explanation of    what the UA                                                               
can do to "retain" teachers.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:27:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  explained that the UA's  responsibility would be                                                               
to report on the rates of  retention for each school district and                                                               
the school districts' plans for improvement.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER surmised  that the  sponsor would  approve                                                               
clarification of that responsibility by the committee.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:28:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TIM  LAMKIN,   Staff  to  Senator  Gary   Stevens,  Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, speaking on behalf  of the sponsor, Senator Stevens,                                                               
stated that one retention tool in  use by the UA is the statewide                                                               
mentoring project  that is  a direct  partnership between  the UA                                                               
and the Department of Early Development & Education (DEED).                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:28:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WILSON  observed that  the  UA  can  play  a big  role  in                                                               
retention  by  the  proper  preparation  of  students  to  handle                                                               
situations in  rural areas.  Students need  information pertinent                                                               
to remote and rural placement.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:30:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LAMKIN   pointed  out  that   some  teachers   prefer  rural                                                               
placement.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:30:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA  asked about  the depth  of the  report; in                                                               
fact, retention can be related  to the amount of funding provided                                                               
by the legislature.   She asked whether the  report would include                                                               
studies  on the  issues  of funding  incentives  and benefits  to                                                               
teachers.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:31:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAMKIN affirmed that the intent  of the task force was not to                                                               
limit  the  parameters  of the  report.  Representative  Cissna's                                                               
inquiry falls in the realm of the report.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:32:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH  expressed her concern that  the report                                                               
will  be used  to financially  leverage an  appropriation, rather                                                               
than  the discussion  of actions  taken to  address the  rates of                                                               
retention.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:32:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROSES referred  to  the July  1, 2012,  effective                                                               
date on page 2, line 26, of the  bill.  He asked whether this was                                                               
a conflict with Section 1, that  sets an effective date of ninety                                                               
days from enactment.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:33:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAMKIN explained that the  report would be presented annually                                                               
for the first five years, and biannually after July 1, 2012.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:34:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CYNTHIA  HENRY,  Vice  Chair, Board  of  Regents,  University  of                                                               
Alaska,  informed  the committee that it was the  position of the                                                               
Board  of   Regents  to   comply  with   any  request   from  the                                                               
legislature.  She  stated  that   teacher  education  is  a  high                                                               
priority  for  the  UA,  and  expressed  her  hope  that  working                                                               
together  with  the legislature  can  help  to fill  the  teacher                                                               
vacancies across Alaska.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:35:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  surmised that  the annual report  would be                                                               
delivered in person to the legislative committees.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:36:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. HENRY agreed.    She noted that the Board  of Regents holds a                                                               
February  meeting   in  Juneau  that  could   coincide  with  its                                                               
presentation of the report.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:37:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAMKIN affirmed  that the presentation is  set to accommodate                                                               
the existing Board of Regents meeting schedule.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:37:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON asked  for more information on what the  UA could do                                                               
to address the teacher shortage in the state.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:38:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN PUGH, Chancellor, University  of Alaska Southeast, explained                                                               
that individual school districts  have the primary responsibility                                                               
to retain  teachers; however, the UA  mentor project, established                                                               
in  partnership  with  the  DEED  four years  ago,  is  making  a                                                               
difference  by supporting  first  year and  second year  teachers                                                               
throughout the state.   The mentors are master  teachers who work                                                               
with beginning teachers to help  them through the critical period                                                               
of the  first five years of  teaching.  Also, the  UA can provide                                                               
professional  development  activities  to school  districts  that                                                               
ensure that new teachers  are continuing professional development                                                               
during  their  apprenticeship.   Finally,  the  UA can  encourage                                                               
placement in  rural Alaska by  offering rural  assignments during                                                               
internships.  Intern placements in  rural Alaska have resulted in                                                               
permanent placements.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:41:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WILSON  asked whether  the  mentors  make suggestions  for                                                               
improvements to the program.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:41:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHANCELLOR PUGH indicated that mentors  have provided feedback on                                                               
curriculum.   Furthermore, the Master  of Arts in  Teaching (MAT)                                                               
course  requires placement  in a  classroom for  an entire  year,                                                               
thus there is  feedback from teachers on  each student's teaching                                                               
abilities.    In  addition,  the UA  uses  teachers  as  adjutant                                                               
faculty  teachers  at the  university  level;  this assures  that                                                               
professors have the opportunity for time back in a classroom.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:42:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON asked  whether the state requires  teachers to visit                                                               
classrooms.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:43:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHANCELLOR  PUGH  said   that  the  state  does   not  have  that                                                               
requirement.    The  UA  at Southeast  (UAS)  requires  that  all                                                               
teachers who become faculty are certified.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:43:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES asked how many  students are enrolled in the                                                               
MAT program.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:43:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHANCELLOR  PUGH  answered  that,  at  the  UAS,  there  are  100                                                               
students in  the undergraduate program, including  some part-time                                                               
and distance education students.   In most years, there are about                                                               
50 students in the year-long MAT program.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:44:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROSES  asked  whether the  year-long  internship,                                                               
with  a portion  of time  in rural  Alaska, is  available to  MAT                                                               
students only.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:44:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHANCELLOR PUGH indicated  that UAS does not require  a full year                                                               
internship in  the four year  program. The  undergraduate program                                                               
includes junior  and senior  year course  requirements and  a one                                                               
semester internship.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:45:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked for  clarification of the requirement                                                               
that the  report include  "an outline  of the  university's past,                                                               
current, and  future plans."   He asked for an  interpretation of                                                               
the meaning of "past."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:45:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHANCELLOR  PUGH said  that he  was unclear  on that  point.   He                                                               
opined that the  material covering all of the UA's  past would be                                                               
burdensome.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:46:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked for the sponsor to comment.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:46:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LAMKIN  suggested  that  data  on  the  past  known  teacher                                                               
shortage is fairly  recent.  He also noted that  the past history                                                               
would be reported once just to reconcile the data.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
3:47:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROSES mentioned  that  there has  been a  teacher                                                               
placement  service  in the  state  for  many  years and  data  is                                                               
available.  He  opined that data older than five  years would not                                                               
be helpful.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:48:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON affirmed that the  intent of the task force                                                               
was  not  to  go  back,  but rather  to  report  on  the  current                                                               
situation  and the  future plans  for implementing  the training,                                                               
attraction, and retention of teachers.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:49:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON suggested the deletion of "past."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:49:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON indicated that  the deletion of "past" will                                                               
be considered.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:49:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked whether  there are active efforts to                                                               
recruit  students   from  local   communities  to   get  teaching                                                               
credentials.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:50:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHANCELLOR PUGH described the "future  teachers program" in place                                                               
in rural communities throughout the  state.  Through support by a                                                               
grant, there  is recruiting at  high schools and  Native teachers                                                               
and students are  bought in.  Each high school  has teachers that                                                               
work  with identified  students as  mentors to  prepare them  for                                                               
course work in the field of education.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:52:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked that  the report include information                                                               
on the future teacher's program.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:52:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHANCELLOR PUGH agreed.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:52:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROSES  recalled  efforts to  encourage  teacher's                                                               
aides in  rural communities to  become certified teachers.   Some                                                               
of the  obstacles were:  travel  to the university for  the final                                                               
courses;  the  expense; time  away  from  family; and  university                                                               
course requirements.   He noted the difficulty  to overcome these                                                               
obstacles.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:53:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHANCELLOR  PUGH  reminded  the   committee  that  UAS  offers  a                                                               
bachelor  degree   in  elementary  education  by   distance  from                                                               
anywhere in  the state.   Nevertheless,  good teachers  must have                                                               
content course  work; in fact,  the field of  secondary education                                                               
now has a federal mandate that requires  a degree or a major in a                                                               
given field  to teach high  school.  Qualifying teachers  for the                                                               
secondary level will continue to be a challenge.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:55:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 3:55 to 3:57                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:57:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER expressed  his concern  that SB  241 is  a                                                               
proposal for  more than  a report;  in fact,  the bill  calls for                                                               
"short-term and five-year  strategies with accompanying budgets."                                                               
He assumed  that the UA must  spend money to develop  a new five-                                                               
year  strategy; however,  the zero  fiscal note  accompanying the                                                               
bill refers only to the preparation of reports.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:57:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROSES  explained  that the  education  tax  force                                                               
discussed this issue  during one task force meeting.   The simple                                                               
inquiry that inspired  the bill was to determine how  well the UA                                                               
was working to fill the education gap.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:58:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON agreed and  suggested that the issue should                                                               
also be looked at in the  context of the creation of the standing                                                               
committee on  education.   The identified  goal was  that teacher                                                               
training,  and   the  hiring  and  retention   of  teachers,  was                                                               
affecting education  in the  state. This  was a  highly important                                                               
issue,  not related  to funding,  that the  task force  wanted to                                                               
refer to  the standing  committee on  education, and  this report                                                               
was a way to provide  the committee with updated information from                                                               
the UA.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:00:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROSES  confirmed  that  the  main  focus  of  the                                                               
education  task  force was  on  funding  and  it worked  hard  to                                                               
establish multi-year,  forward funding  of education so  that the                                                               
substance of educational issues could be investigated.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:01:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER presumed  that the  intent of  the sponsor                                                               
was  to include  in  the report  the efforts  of  all schools  to                                                               
attract, train, and retain qualified  public school teachers; not                                                               
just efforts by the UA.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:03:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAMKIN confirmed  that the intent of the bill  was to provide                                                               
a  forum  to  allow  the discussion  of  substantive  educational                                                               
policy, not just the funding  of educational programs.  Secondly,                                                               
if the  committee decides  to remove  the UA  and to  include the                                                               
DEED, there must be  a title change to the bill.   He opined that                                                               
the collaboration of other departments is implicit in the bill.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:04:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROSES  cautioned  that   there  are  many  issues                                                               
involved  in  teacher  retention,  such  as  living  and  working                                                               
conditions, and removing  the UA will take the  report outside of                                                               
the intent of the bill.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:05:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LAMKIN  spoke regarding  the  request  for "strategies  with                                                               
accompanying budgets."   He suggested  that the UA would  need to                                                               
request  a budget,  along with  its  strategies, in  order to  be                                                               
fair.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
4:06:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FAIRCLOUGH expressed  her concern  that the  bill                                                               
presents  an expectation  for  growth within  the  UA system.  If                                                               
funding becomes  necessary, there must be  measurable outcomes so                                                               
that the funding can be  retracted.  For the legislative history,                                                               
she said that she did not  want to see the UA presenting budgets,                                                               
but rather  information on  what it is  doing to  attract, train,                                                               
and retain  qualified public school teachers.  Separately, the UA                                                               
may   submit   options   with    an   attached   fiscal   report.                                                               
Representative  Fairclough   related  that  the  UA   budget  has                                                               
increased  50  percent  during  the  last  four  to  five  years;                                                               
however, the  student population  has not.   In addition,  it has                                                               
added at  least 80 new programs.   She warned that  when students                                                               
enter a  new UA  program, the curriculum  must be  maintained for                                                               
years, even with a small number of enrollees.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:08:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAMKIN offered to draft a letter of intent.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:08:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH said  that she is happy  to support the                                                               
training and retaining  of teachers in the  state; however, there                                                               
must be  accountability in a business  plan.  In order  to invest                                                               
in education,  the committee  needs to  understand the  UA budget                                                               
implications.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
4:09:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA observed  that the Board of  Regents have a                                                               
loose  role  in the  bill  by  providing the  university's  past,                                                               
current, and  future plans.   She gave the  student's perspective                                                               
and supported the requirement that  the university issue a report                                                               
with "outcome measures" in terms of successes.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
4:12:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHANCELLOR PUGH agreed and said, "That  is the whole point of our                                                               
performance based budgeting  that we have been  presenting to the                                                               
legislature."   He gave the  example that  most of the  UA budget                                                               
money  has gone  to health  care programs;  in fact,  the nursing                                                               
program  and  health science  programs  have  doubled or  tripled                                                               
graduates.    He opined that the first report  would show all the                                                               
graduates   in  every   area;  however,   some  areas,   such  as                                                               
specialized  special  education,  although  required  by  federal                                                               
regulations,   are  difficult   for  a   small  state   to  fill.                                                               
Chancellor Pugh  assured the committee  that all of the  data was                                                               
available  as a  part of  the UA  budget request  procedures, and                                                               
would   be  provided,   including  the   projection  of   student                                                               
enrollment for new programs.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:14:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA  strongly   suggested  that  the  proposed                                                               
legislation should  model its  purpose and  that the  language of                                                               
the bill could be improved by amendments.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:14:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER asked  for  more information  on the  UA's                                                               
involvement with the mentoring program.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:15:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHANCELLOR  PUGH  informed  the   committee  that  the  mentoring                                                               
program  began  at the  request  of  the former  commissioner  of                                                               
education.  Funding, from federal  and state sources, enables the                                                               
UA to hire  master teacher mentors, to  adopt criterion standards                                                               
for mentors, and to administer  the program.  The master teachers                                                               
are not  faculty, in fact,  they come from K-12  school districts                                                               
throughout the  state.   A UA faculty  member is  researching the                                                               
effectiveness of  the program so  its impact on the  retention of                                                               
teachers will be known.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:16:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES  added that the program  was initially begun                                                               
by former Commissioner  Shirley Holloway with grant  funds to the                                                               
Teacher  Enhancement Board.    The intent  was  to establish  and                                                               
model  best  practices  for  teachers.    The  program  began  in                                                               
Anchorage  and   after  two  years  of   development  became  the                                                               
statewide  mentoring   program.     Due  to   budget  restraints,                                                               
mentoring is  only available to  first and second  year teachers.                                                               
Representative Roses explained that  the program is now supported                                                               
by state funds.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:19:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON  asked how many  teachers are mentored and  how long                                                               
the program has been in effect.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:19:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHANCELLOR  PUGH said  that the  program has  been statewide  for                                                               
three  years.   Approximately  seventy  percent  of teachers  are                                                               
mentored and the  result is a higher retention  rate for mentored                                                               
teachers.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:20:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES stated  that the ultimate goal  is to mentor                                                               
every  first year  teacher, principal,  and  superintendent.   At                                                               
this time, poor  evaluations identify the teachers  that will get                                                               
a  mentor and  he  opined  that early  intervention  is the  most                                                               
effective.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:22:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA recalled  that there  was a  grant in  the                                                               
1990's.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
4:23:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES clarified that the  grant was funded in 2000                                                               
and  was specifically  designed to  determine what  best teaching                                                               
practices were  and how to  train teachers to use  best practices                                                               
to meet the  goals and standards of  the state.  The  UA then had                                                               
to realign its curriculum to train teachers appropriately.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
4:24:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA stated  that part of the  importance of the                                                               
bill is that it would continue the work underway.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
4:25:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER remarked:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     I'm  really struggling  with the  concept, ...  I'm all                                                                    
     for the report ... and I'm  all for the idea of keeping                                                                    
     the program going.   But the section of law  this is in                                                                    
     is not programs, and this is  more than a report.  When                                                                    
     you ask  for plans,  strategies, and budget,  that fits                                                                    
     into the  program portion of the  University of Alaska,                                                                    
     and that's fair, and then  we're talking, fiscal impact                                                                    
     and  everything  else. ...  It  just  seems like  we're                                                                    
     doing more,  .190, the  first part  here that  is being                                                                    
     added to,  part (b), is  nothing more than a  report on                                                                    
     what the  university is  doing with  its money  and its                                                                    
     facilities.   There's nothing in  there that  says that                                                                    
     we want a plan here, and  we want what you are going to                                                                    
     do,  and we  want  a budget,  it's  not proactive.  ...                                                                    
     We're  doing  more  than  just   a  report.  ...  As  I                                                                    
     understand it,  we're leaving  [AS] 14.40.190  in there                                                                    
     and that becomes (a) and this is  a new (b).  What I am                                                                    
     questioning is whether it's  a proper drafting practice                                                                    
       here, to put something in here that is more than a                                                                       
     report.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:27:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAMKIN  stated that the decision  was made by the  drafter of                                                               
the bill.   He spoke on  behalf of Senator Stevens  and suggested                                                               
an amendment  that would strike  "accompanying budgets"  and, or,                                                               
"past plans."   Mr. Lamkin  then re-stated his opinion that there                                                               
is value in having a review of the past.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
4:29:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WILSON  reminded  Mr.  Lamkin  that  the  members  of  the                                                               
committee would change every two  years.  She than announced that                                                               
the bill  would be held  and asked Representative Keller  to work                                                               
out his concerns with the sponsor.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:29:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON indicated that he had an amendment.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
4:29:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FAIRCLOUGH  asked to see  a letter of  intent from                                                               
the sponsor and proposed that the  bill should have a fiscal note                                                               
attached,  to provide  for options  and measurements,  instead of                                                               
the integrated budget that can not be taken apart.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
4:30:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROSES   asked  whether   the  sponsor   would  be                                                               
submitting a committee substitute or amendments.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
4:30:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON asked the sponsor  to work with committee members on                                                               
amendments.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
[SB 241 was held over.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                

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